by Bryan Frye
on July 27, 2021
Adam Steele is back (sort of) with the results of the greatest team of all time installment of his Wisdom of Crowds project. He was busy and asked me to do the writeup, so I shall do my best to do it justice.
This wasn’t exactly the busiest ballot topic—we only received 14 ballots, 12 of which were accepted. So, with the caveat that the sample size is dreadfully small, the Football Perspective readers chose the 1985 Chicago Bears as the greatest team of all time. I don’t think that comes as much of a surprise to anyone. Also expected, the juggernaut 1991 Washington squad that probably gets underrated in most circles due to the lack of a Hall of Fame passer, took silver, and the dominant 1962 Packers snagged a bronze. [continue reading…]
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by Bryan Frye
on July 12, 2021
After about 215000 words and nearly 400 pages, the Grand List is finally over. Before I get to updating the list to include the 2020 season, I want to consolidate some of the information from the project.
By design, there were five special teamers and six return men on the team. After that, I went with the players I felt were the best, irrespective of position. Without separating premodern from modern players, and counting two way players by their offensive positions, here is a positional breakdown of the list:
- 90 quarterbacks
- 118 running backs
- 10 blocking fullbacks
- 122 wide receivers or ends
- 41 tight ends
- 77 offensive tackles
- 72 offensive guards
- 44 offensive centers
- 75 defensive ends
- 83 defensive tackles
- 111 linebackers
- 65 cornerbacks
- 62 safeties
- 10 kickers
- 9 punters
Given the number of players at each position that occupy the field at the same time, which has fluctuated as the league has evolved, I don’t think the numbers are too far off from whatever the ideal is. The relative lack of defensive players is explained by the fact that the premodern players played on both side of the ball. So when I count Baugh as a quarterback, I am ignoring his work at safety to avoid double counting, though he obviously played on defense for much of his career. In theory, there should be about the same number of tackles and guards, and that number should be about twice as high as centers. However, it looks like centers are a little high, so I may have been too generous there, or not generous enough with guards and tackles. When looking at the older players, I remember having the impression that, for one reason or another, centers tended to be better on defense. That may explain some of the high number. I think I am a little low on defensive backs, and I will try to further examine my own thoughts on that as I continue to update the list as I gather new information.
When I update the list to include the 2020 seasons, as well as additional study I have done on older players in the time since I began writing the list, I have considered removing special teams players and giving them their own special section. It always felt weird putting even the best kickers on par with a Hall of Fame level defensive end or wide receiver. Hekker and Tucker were right between Tingelhoff and Dorsett on the original list, and I still feel conflicted about that. I believe they are the best ever at their roles, but they barely step foot on the field. I would much rather create a separate section just for guys like them, Hester, and Tasker so I can make room on the top 1000 for players like Joel Bitonio, Joe Thuney, Tre’Davious White, or Tyrann Mathieu. I’d love to hear the opinion of the Football Perspective readership, whom I consider one of the smartest I’ve had the pleasure of encountering. [continue reading…]
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by Bryan Frye
on July 9, 2021
We finally made it. This marks the last installment of the Grand List, a countdown of the top one thousand players in pro football history (who spent at least some time in the NFL). I began publishing this list in March 2020, right after the NFL’s centennial season, and had the aspirational goal of publishing the full list before the 2020 season started. By the beginning of the season, I had 399 players remaining. I focused on the 2020 season live rather than trying to work on the list while the season was still ongoing, and I picked back up in March 2021. In order to be fair to active players named in the first 600 players, I made the choice to ignore the 2020 season entirely when moving forward with the list. That means I had to pretend dominant performances from Mahomes, Rodgers and Donald didn’t happen, or that Brady didn’t win another title with a new team and scheme. When I am done with the list, I will make an update to include not only the new information form the 2020 season, but also more film study I hadn’t yet conducted for older seasons.
My typical caveats apply here:
- These are based solely on my opinion. I’d like to think that it is a pretty well-reasoned and informed opinion, but it is an opinion nonetheless. As my late grandfather, who got me in to studying the game thirty years ago, used to say: “Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one, and they all stink.” I haven’t sniffed everyone’s opinion, but I think it’s fair to say we all have one others would consider less than rosy. If you find mine appalling and would like to let me know, do so in the comments. Undue praise and deserved criticism are welcome. Please send personal attacks to DeleteSansReading@gmail.com.
- Ordinal rankings tend to imply a level of separation that is sometimes essentially nonexistent. I could see arguments for players 2-6 to be in any order. Ditto players 9-20. At some point, it comes down to preference and best-guessing.
- Building on that, rankings are somewhat fluid. Because of the amount of time I have spent studying and thinking about football, I can easily talk myself into and out of an argument for or against a player. With the exception of number one, my placement of most players moved around, sometimes significantly, while constructing the list. When I publish the update, many players will see large changes in rank.
- It’s just football. It probably seems silly to say something like this after writing 200,000+ words for a trivial list, but it’s just entertainment. This stuff doesn’t really matter to me beyond that.
Previous articles in the series
The Grand List, part 1: Includes honorable/special mentions and players 1000-990.
The Grand List, part 2: Includes players 989-965.
The Grand List, part 3: Includes players 964-940.
The Grand List, part 4: Includes players 939-901.
The Grand List, part 5: Includes players 900-876.
The Grand List, part 6: Includes players 875-851.
The Grand List, part 7: Includes players 850-810.
The Grand List, part 8: Includes players 809-780.
The Grand List, part 9: Includes players 779-750.
The Grand List, part 10: Includes players 749-700.
The Grand List, part 11: Includes players 699-650.
The Grand List, part 12: Includes players 649-600.
The Grand List, part 13: Includes players 599-550.
The Grand List, part 14: Includes players 549-500.
The Grand List, part 15: Includes players 499-450.
The Grand List, part 16: Includes players 449-400.
The Grand List, part 17: Includes players 399-350.
The Grand List, part 18: Includes players 349-300.
The Grand List, part 19: Includes players 299-250.
The Grand List, part 20: Includes players 249-200.
The Grand List, part 21: Includes players 199-150.
The Grand List, part 22: Includes players 149-101.
The Grand List, part 23: Includes players 100-51.
The Grand List, part 24: Includes players 50-21.
Let’s wrap it up.
[continue reading…]
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by Bryan Frye
on July 2, 2021
This marks the penultimate section of the Grand List, or: the top 1000 players in pro football history (or something like that). Keep in mind, of course, that I have purposely excluded the 2020 season because I began publishing the list before the season started. It feels a little silly to write as though the past season didn’t happen, but I don’t think it would be fair to count a season for higher ranked players that I didn’t include for lower ranked players. Today’s section covers players 50 through 21, and the top 20 will follow when I get around to it. This range includes many players often considered the greatest of all time at their respective positions, a few modern players who are probably higher here than they appear on most lists, and the last of the premodern stars. I have little doubt everyone who reads will be in complete agreement with these choices.
Previous articles in the series
The Grand List, part 1: Includes honorable/special mentions and players 1000-990.
The Grand List, part 2: Includes players 989-965.
The Grand List, part 3: Includes players 964-940.
The Grand List, part 4: Includes players 939-901.
The Grand List, part 5: Includes players 900-876.
The Grand List, part 6: Includes players 875-851.
The Grand List, part 7: Includes players 850-810.
The Grand List, part 8: Includes players 809-780.
The Grand List, part 9: Includes players 779-750.
The Grand List, part 10: Includes players 749-700.
The Grand List, part 11: Includes players 699-650.
The Grand List, part 12: Includes players 649-600.
The Grand List, part 13: Includes players 599-550.
The Grand List, part 14: Includes players 549-500.
The Grand List, part 15: Includes players 499-450.
The Grand List, part 16: Includes players 449-400.
The Grand List, part 17: Includes players 399-350.
The Grand List, part 18: Includes players 349-300.
The Grand List, part 19: Includes players 299-250.
The Grand List, part 20: Includes players 249-200.
The Grand List, part 21: Includes players 199-150.
The Grand List, part 22: Includes players 149-101.
The Grand List, part 23: Includes players 100-51.
We’re almost there.
[continue reading…]
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